本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛萨达姆庭审对话节选：我是伊拉克共和国总统
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2004年07月02日 11:30



　　中新网7月2日电 据美联社报道，以下是根据美国军方编辑的录音所整理的萨达姆庭审部分对话记录。录音并没有录下萨达姆全部发言，例如萨达姆在法庭曾称“这是罪犯布什的一个戏院。”。

　　萨达姆(以下称萨)：萨达姆·候赛因，伊拉克共和国总统。萨达姆·候赛因·马吉德，伊拉克共和国总统。

　　法：你母亲的名字？

　　萨：索巴。

　　萨：我是否可以澄清一点？

　　法：可以，请。

　　萨：你也得向我介绍一下你自己。

　　法：萨达姆先生，我是伊拉克中央法庭的调查法官。

　　萨：这样我就得问，你是伊拉克中央法庭的调查法官？是什么决议、什么法律组建了这一法庭？是联军吗？那么你是代表占领军的一个伊拉克人？

　　法：不，我是代表伊拉克的伊拉克人。

　　萨：但你是...

　　法官：前政权的一份总统令任命我出任这一职务。

　　萨：所以你在重申所有的伊拉克人都应遵守伊拉克法律。以前通过的法律代表着人民的意志，这是否正确？

　　法：是的，真主保佑。

　　萨：因此你不应当在联军的管辖下工作。

　　法：这是重要的一点。我是一名法官。在旧政权中，我尊敬这些法官。我正在恢复和继续我的工作。你和其它任何公民一样都得回答针对你的任何指控。

　　法：这是一次提审。如果指控被证实，你就会被判决有罪。如果没有，那么一切都好。司法程序将带来正义。如果有证据，那么你将被判决有罪。如果没有证据，那么你将不会被判决有罪。直到现在，你只是被司法系统指控，所以...

　　萨：所以，请让我发言，我不想使事情复杂化。你是一名法官？你是一名法官。法官尊重法律，他们根据法律作出判决？对吗？对吗？正义是一个相对的事情，对我们来说，正义是古兰经的遗产，对吗？我不是在谈论萨达姆，他是否是一名公民或是其它什么人。我不是想紧紧抱住我的职位不放，而是尊重人民决定挑选萨达姆作为革命领导人的意志。因此，当我说我是伊拉克共和国总统时，这并不是出于仪式或是不想放弃这一职位，而是在对伊拉克民重申我尊重他们的意志。这是第一点。第二点，你将我传唤至这里来听取指控。

　　萨：让我来了解一些事。谁是被告？在一名被告来到法庭之前应进行调查。这不是一个法庭。这是调查。现在是调查。让我来澄清这一点。我希望你记得你是一名人民授权的法官。你判决我是否有罪并不重要，重要的是你记得自己是一名法官。所以不要提占领军，这不好。以人民的名义审判，这很好。以人民的名义审判，这是伊拉克的方式。

　　法：萨达姆先生，这是调查程序，调查程序。

　　萨：从法律角度来说，你已获知我有律师，是吗？我是否在见你之前应会见律师？

　　法：如果你给我十分钟，让我们完成这些正式手续，我会回答你的问题。如果你等一会，你会看到你的权利是得到保证的。

　　萨达姆：好的，继续。

　　法：按照法律，萨达姆先生，调查法官将宣读对被告的指控，并按照法律向他解释所有的指控，法律第123、124、125条条款。第一步是，这些法律条款是否是由萨达姆签署的？

　　萨：：是的，这是1973年的法律，当时萨达姆是领导层的代表，他签署了这些法律。所以你现在用萨达姆签署的法律来审判萨达姆。萨达姆是人民。请看一下宪法机制吧。我不是一名律师，但我知道我精通法律。是否可以传唤一名由人民选举的总统并用根据他和人民的意志所颁布的法律来审判他？这存在矛盾之处。

　　法官：不，司法程序让我来澄清这一点。第一，我不是在考虑对你提起诉讼。我是在调查，我是和你一起在调查，质问你。第二，总统是一个职业，是一个职位，是社会的代表，这是对的。他也是一个公民。按照宪法和法律，如果一个公民违反了法律，他将受到法律的审判。你比我更熟悉这些法律。这些就是对你提出的指控。使用化学武器蓄意杀害哈拉比贾的民众。第二：1983年蓄意杀害大量伊拉克民众。第三：在进行审判的情况下杀害大量政党成员。第四：蓄意杀害大量伊拉克宗教界人士。第五：在没有任何证据的情况下蓄意杀害安法尔的许多伊拉克民众。你有权辩护和回答。这是你的权利。现在我们进入关键环节。你已听取了法庭对你提出的罪行指控。你已被告知适用的法律条款。法庭也向你宣布了你的辩护和代理权、不回答任何问题的权利，这将不会作为指控你的证据。法庭还向被告赋予对证据提出质疑的权利。被告提出会见辩护律师，他的私人辩护律师在调查进行时出庭。因此，考虑到这一点，提审结束，调查将推迟举行直到被告与他的律师取得联系，下一次开庭日期另行宣布。你应该签署指控你的法律文件。这样我可以...

　　萨：我签这些文件。但你对我的指控是我任共和国总统的职务所提出的。有关哈拉比贾，我过去曾在电台听说过此事...在我任总统期间对哈拉比贾发动了攻击。

　　法：这只是法律事务，你有权等到有律师在场时在回答这一问题。

　　萨：你得听我说完。指控第七条，占领科威特。非常不幸这一指控来自于一名伊拉克人。你要知道科威特人说，花10个第纳尔就能和伊拉克女人做爱。我保卫了伊拉克人的尊严。这些动物！

　　法：不得使用粗话和攻击性语言，这是在法庭上。

　　萨：是，我对所有事负责。

　　萨：请允许我在律师到场后再签署文件。

　　法：这很好。

　　萨：我为自己辩护。

　　法：是的，作为一个公民，你有权利。但是你得签署这些权利的保证文，你已被告知这些权利。

　　萨：这不是法庭程序的一部分。

　　法：不，这是法庭程序的一部分。

　　萨：不，我将等到律师在场时签署文件。

　　法：那么你可以走了。

　　萨：完了吗？

　　法：是的。(春风）更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Posted 7/1/2004 10:51 PM Updated 7/2/2004 8:57 AM

Former dictator won't make it easy to try him
By Steven Komarow, USA TODAY

BAGHDAD — The sound of clinking chains announced Saddam Hussein's arrival at the small makeshift courthouse on Thursday. But by the time he walked into the courtroom he was let loose in ways that went beyond removing his handcuffs.

For 26 minutes, the 67-year-old former dictator was alternately nervous, feisty, angry, tired and impatient. He was never repentant.

He had bags under his eyes. He's thinner. The teeth that once flashed white on propaganda posters are yellow, especially when set against the crisp white shirt he wore. After months in blue prison overalls, Saddam and the other defendants a few days ago were given new shirts and cheap suits by the coalition for their court appearances.

He looked thinner and less imposing than the dictator who ruled Iraq for 25 years. He sported a trimmed beard, largely gray, that doesn't hide the folds of the skin of his neck or the dance of his still-black eyebrows. At times he appeared somewhat tentative.

Saddam's hands almost never stopped moving. When he wasn't jabbing his finger forcefully at the judge or making other gestures, he was stroking his facial hair. At one point he scribbled notes.

"I don't want to complicate things," he'd say, before complicating things.

Asked if he could afford a lawyer, Saddam retorted: "The Americans say I have millions hidden in Switzerland. How can I not have the money to pay for one?"

The judge had to interrupt Saddam repeatedly to keep the session focused on its limited purpose: reading the charges and rights to the former dictator and, separately, 11 of his henchmen.

Saddam returned the favor by lecturing the judge.

"The judicial system in Iraq represents the people of Iraq," he said, admonishing the judge not to follow the laws of the "invading forces."

The judge reassured him that he was an Iraqi judge, representing the people.

But a peek through the yellow-curtained windows of the tiny courtroom showed the limited power of the new Iraqi government.

The court used Thursday is on a lake in the middle of a major U.S. base, Camp Victory, built on the grounds of one of Saddam's palaces. Thousands of troops with their tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles and attack helicopters are close by.

The courthouse was redecorated to look Iraqi. A colorful rug covered the floor and a Koran scripture hung above the door.

Just days earlier, the same courtroom was used for a pretrial hearing of a defendant in the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal.

In the jury room is a bookshelf with cheap novels and a classic: Dostoevski's Crime and Punishment.

Saddam was escorted out of the courtroom after refusing to sign a document acknowledging that the judge had advised him of his rights.

Presumably, Saddam will have a legal team in place soon, so the judge can schedule a new hearing for that purpose.

When Saddam got up to leave, one of the Iraqi guards went to help him. To the guard, Saddam said, "Take it easy — I'm an old man."更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Saddam speaks out

Saddam Hussein appeared in court Thursday to hear the charges against him. The comments were translated from Arabic.

When asked his name by the judge: "Saddam Hussein al-Majid, president of Iraq."

On the hearing: "You know that this is all a theater by Bush, the criminal, to help him with his campaign."

On the judge: "So you repress Iraqis under orders of the coalition."

On his ordering Iraq's invasion and occupation of Kuwait in 1990: "How could Saddam be tried over a Kuwait that said it will reduce Iraqi women to 10-dinar prostitutes? He defended Iraq's honor and revived its historical rights over those dogs."

When asked to sign court documents at the end of the hearing: "Please allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present. Anyhow, when you take a procedure to bring me here again, present me all these papers with the presence of lawyers."

When asked whether he can afford a lawyer: "According to the Americans, I have millions of dollars in Geneva, so I should be able to afford one."

To guards taking him from the courtroom: "Take it easy, I'm an old man."

The Associated Press更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net