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那教可兰经的片段呢? -mikesmith(老猫); 9.4 19:48 (#7758632@0) reply more

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  • 枫下家园 / 望子成龙 / 现在有讨论在公校教圣经的片段,你会介意吗?
    • 完全不介意,还举双手赞成!
      • 那教可兰经的片段呢?
        • 没看两只手都忙着呢么。就是想表示赞同都不成了。
          • 允许一种宗教,就要允许其他宗教.毕竟是公校。但这问题如果没有相当的学识和历史知识,会产生很多误导,也极不容易把握课堂讨论的尺度,尤其是学生里有虔诚信仰的。我觉得现在安省学校的教师恐怕无法handle这类宗教问题的讨论。所以不赞成任何圣经,可兰经,佛经进入中学教材
            • 各种宗教都应该讲,只要结论告诉学生它们都是在骗人就行了
              • 学生里有虔诚的穆斯林会出人命的。
              • 你这招我党玩过了,没用。最后大家都知道是我党骗人最多。本地教育界不会出如此弱智的事吧?
                • There is only one god: Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. There are several gods: Genesis 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image. 麻烦你给大家解释一下英明无比的圣经怎么会有这么多自相矛盾的谬误?

                  How many gods are there?
                  There is only one god. There are several gods
                  Deuteronomy 4:35
                  Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

                  Deuteronomy 4:39
                  The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

                  Deuteronomy 6:4
                  Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

                  Deuteronomy 32:39
                  See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me.

                  1 Kings 18:39
                  The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.

                  Isaiah 43:10
                  I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

                  Isaiah 44:8
                  I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

                  Isaiah 45:5-6
                  I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.

                  There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me.
                  Isaiah 45:21/A>

                  Isaiah 46:9
                  I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me.

                  Mark 12:29
                  The Lord our God is
                  one Lord.

                  Mark 12:32
                  There is one God; and there is none other but he.

                  John 17:3
                  That they might know thee the only true God.

                  1 Corinthians 8:6
                  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.
                  Genesis 1:26
                  And God said, let us make man in our image.

                  Genesis 3:22
                  And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

                  Genesis 11:7
                  Let us go down, and there confound their language.

                  Exodus 12:12
                  And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment.

                  Exodus 15:11
                  Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?

                  Exodus 18:11
                  Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods.

                  Exodus 20:3, 5
                  Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

                  Exodus 22:20
                  He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

                  Exodus 22:28
                  Thou shalt not revile the gods.

                  Exodus 23:13
                  Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

                  Exodus 23:24
                  Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

                  Exodus 23:32
                  Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.

                  Exodus 34:14
                  For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

                  Numbers 33:4
                  Upon their gods also theLORD executed judgments.

                  Deuteronomy 3:24
                  What God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works?

                  Deuteronomy 5:7
                  Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

                  Deuteronomy 6:14-15
                  Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you)

                  Deuteronomy 10:17
                  For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords.

                  Deuteronomy 28:14
                  Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them.

                  Joshua 24:2
                  They served other gods.

                  Joshua 24:14
                  Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served.

                  Judges 11:24
                  Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess?

                  1 Samuel 6:5
                  Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods.

                  1 Samuel 28:13
                  And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

                  1 Chronicles 16:25
                  The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.

                  Psalm 82:1
                  God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods.

                  Psalm 82:6
                  I have said, Ye are gods.

                  Psalm 86:8
                  Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord.

                  Psalm 96:4
                  For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.

                  Psalm 97:7
                  Worship him, all ye gods.

                  Psalm 135:5
                  Our Lord is above all gods.

                  Psalm 136:2
                  O give thanks unto the God of gods.

                  Jeremiah 1:16
                  I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods.

                  Jeremiah 10:11
                  The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

                  Jeremiah 25:6
                  And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.

                  Jeremiah 46:25
                  I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods.

                  Zephaniah 2:11
                  The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth.

                  John 10:33-34
                  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

                  1 John 5:7
                  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

                  Christian Responses
                  LookingUntoJesus.net
                  Dan of Israel
                  Carm.org

                  • 这是个翻译问题,注意大小写就行了。请移步心灵感悟坛,还有更全面答案。
            • 天主教学校的宗教课里全部宗教都有介绍和研究
              • 说的是public school
                • Public school 也可以跟天主教学校一样介绍和研究全部宗教
                  • 在Public school 宗教课不会是必修课, 孩子们可以根据兴趣和需要选修宗教课,没什么不好。
            • 开玩笑的。同意。我反对在公校里教任何宗教。因为我不认为存在一种完全客观的宗教学课程可以给小孩子们用。反对完了,如果还是一定要教,那就得给所有宗教平等的机会,至少是犹太,佛教,印度教等大教。
              • 可以用选修课的方式
        • 当然要教,最好还有比较研究。不过,听说正港的穆斯林会反对的。派你老猫去说服他们好了。
          • 如果真能抛开教师自己的宗教观,客观,全面,公平的阐述各个经典的来源,现状,影响,和发展,我是很乐意的。
            • 那就麻烦你去找这样的老师啦。如今精神分裂的,双重人格的也不少,其他人恐怕难以满足您的要求。在这儿这么久了,当然知道您老猫教的“客观,全面,公平”是啥东东。嘿嘿。
            • 你这是害人呐,这件事就算上帝来干也会被人骂死.
    • 如果把它跟其它几个主要宗教信仰一起在同一堂课上介绍的话还可以接受,但是单独开课就过头了,有特别需要可由宗教学校来满足。
      • +1.介绍可以,就像介绍诸子百家那样。
    • 我儿子不去公校的理由是学校教人是猴子变的,他不认为这个对。而且,这只是他众多不去公校的理由之一。
      • 人当然不是猴子变来的,谁那么说我跟谁急.但地球和其它生物的历史是只有6000年呢,还是更久远呢?为什么人类的DNA和老鼠的有98%的相似度,和大惺惺的就好像是同一个母版印刷的,只是出了些差错呢?
        个人看法哈,进化论,for that matter, all science, 和宗教信仰并不矛盾。God提供了源动力,提供了蓝图,提供了膜版,提供了宇宙间的rule, 重力,电磁力,而各种生物遵循此rule, 自由进化,
        • 探索科学真是奇妙的事情,说到Dna的相似性,跟化学元素的相似性道理一样吧。
    • 安省教育厅关于公立小学Education about Religion的指引1994制定,公立教育局可以(may)为1至8年级提供每周不超过1小时的education about religion(注意about)。引用圣经古兰经只要不是灌输教义,没什么不可以的。这是正在进行时,没什么可讨论的。
      • 指引中这8要8不要,基本限制了关于宗教的教育的的课程:1.The school may sponsor the study of religion, but may not sponsor the practice of religion. 2.The school may expose students to all religious views, but may not impose any particular view.
        1. The school may sponsor the study of religion, but may not sponsor the practice of religion.
        2. The school may expose students to all religious views, but may not impose any particular view.
        3. The school's approach to religion is one of instruction, not one of indoctrination.
        4. The function of the school is to educate about all religions, not to convert to any one religion.
        5. The school's approach is academic, not devotional.
        6. The school should study what all people believe, but should not teach a student what to believe.
        7. The school should strive for student awareness of all religions, but should not press for student acceptance of any one religion.
        8. The school should seek to inform the student about various beliefs, but should not seek to conform him or her to any one belief (Footnote 5).
        • 也就是说现在的公校课程不会直接教授圣经或任何经书的片断?
          • 如果满足以上条件(即不传教,平衡讲述),教师愿意引述圣经古兰经沙马经,都是可以的,我相信公立学校高年级社会研究课,会讲道这些宗教,引述经书片断是免不了的。圣经古兰经对你就那么可怕?不就是印刷的字么?课上念出来有什么不妥?
            • 老猫怕石刑?
            • 从哪里看出我反对了?我不反对任何经典,但对现在的教师能否公平把握解释不同宗教的经典有疑问。
              • 所以要请您教里派出一班公平老师嘛。
    • 我不介意,也不介意人家介意,酱紫~~~~
      • 那教可兰经的片段呢? -mikesmith(老猫); 9.4 19:48 (#7758632@0) reply more
        • 我都不会介意。恰恰相反,如果有机会的话,我希望孩子在学校能够接触所有的宗教。第一,我坚信视野越宽辨别是非能力越强。第二,在这个阶段家长的影响力还在,引导(或误导)都更容易些。其实最简单的一个例子,
          那些现代新兴宗教的狂热信徒里,有多少是受过高等教育,而且成年后才开始接触此宗教的?如果从小拿圣经,可兰经,佛经当科普读,他们还会那么容易的因为接触了某人,某本书而走上那条(对很多人来讲)不归路吗
          • "从小拿圣经,可兰经,佛经当科普读" .... well, some of the kids, when they very young, they can't tell diff between 科普 and 经, so you may think they read it as 科普, but they actually take it as 经
            • 所以要家长的关注啊。我家娃小时候也被奶奶带着拜佛,学前开始看圣经故事连环画(几百页,很全的教堂出的那种),到现在还每隔一段时间就拿出来翻一遍。结果就什么都不信了。我觉得,宗教这东西,接触越多越容易无神
        • 介意。圣经我研读多时,很了解,是本非常好的书。可兰经我不了解,所以介意。这跟open mind没有关系,自己的孩子,爸妈是最终负责人,尽量让她们走安全/熟悉的路是我的方针。每家有不同的方针吧,没什么对错的。
    • 不管信与不信,不了解圣经就不会了解西方社会,尤其美国加拿大是基督教立国的国家。为什么有THANKSGIVING节日?复活节?圣诞节?大多数西方节日都是宗教节日。除非你只跟孩子说,这只是"HOLIDAY"而已。周日也叫"礼拜天",为什么?其实都是从圣经上来的。
      • 我觉得佛教,伊斯兰教都应该了解,了解了一个人的信仰,你就多半了解了他的行为,否则人的思维就很片面。
        • Exactly
        • 咱们中国来的,谁不了解佛教呀。简直是烙印了,什么苦海无边,回头是岸。什么今生来世穿越,悟空八戒。想忘都难吧?
        • 了解伊斯兰教不难,那是主张政教结合的宗教,只要看伊斯兰的政府,尤其是塔立班就知道了。最令人惊奇的是他们主张的强迫传教手段。天道居然要靠人的权势来传?所以那本可兰经,咱们中国来的人基本很难看下去。
          • 在中国,回族是除了汉族以外,人数最多的少数民族,信仰伊斯兰教,大多数都是很好的人。塔立班是极端份子,不能代表伊斯兰。
      • 不排除有些天才,比如老猫只需看摩门经和一些见证人的小册子以及圣经儿童故事书就了解西方社会了。老猫教创制多年了,是现代创教楷模。
    • 介绍圣经不见得就是灌输圣经,历史课还学孔夫子呢,也不是让你信儒教。加拿大毕竟是以基督教徒为基础建立的,立国跟基督教有扯不清的关系,多说点也应该。如果喜欢学习可兰经,可以移民去杀他阿拉伯,看看人家怎么教的。毕竟移民加拿大是你自己选的。
      • 阿富汗也不错,可以参军过去看看,不会丢掉加籍。
        • 塔立班==伊斯兰==可兰经??
          • 白马非马?
    • 要看老师怎么讲。他读的是什么版本的。能看出什么内容来。 好些人自己还不太明白呢,就急着讲。首先他自己应是个智者,一个有学问的人, 否则真的不配谈这些。不如当成讲故事算了。
    • 你不知道这世界还有很多人把圣经当作史书或历史参考书,有很多人把它当作伟大文学作品,有很多人把它作为哲学著作,有很多人从中研究宗教发展的规律。当学校年级高了教授世界历史文学哲学史宗教史的时候,一定会涉及经书的原文内容,有什么问题么?
      • 可能是一种过敏反应?
      • 从哪里看出我反对了?我不反对任何经典,但对现在的教师能否公平把握解释不同宗教的经典有疑问。 -mikesmith(老猫); 09:55 (#7762179@0) reply more
    • 帮忙把这贴子折回去,太占地儿了。
    • 我介意.教圣经是教堂的事不是学校的事.如果能教圣经,为什么不能教可兰经,佛经?
      • 因为加拿大是基度教立国的,就像你去伊斯兰国家,学校里肯定教伊斯兰教。另外西方的文学艺术是离不开宗教的,否则就很难理解。
        • 我认为作为普及化的知识,没有必要单独开课,宗教离不开历史,讲历史自然会讲宗教.公共资源不能为某一宗教服务.至于基督教立国,我对这个问题的理解和字面意义不同,否则又强调宗教自由呢?
          • 因为基督教强调宗教自由呀。
          • 其实学校都是普及型教育,跟教会里教的是有很大差别的。
            • 这是如此,我才有疑问的。如果把圣经(或者可兰经)当一本历史书来解读,那和教会的说法会有相当大差异,在座的如果有虔诚的信徒的孩子,会很不舒服的。
              • 也没什么不舒服,孩子有自己的理解,不管多虔诚的信徒,都要学会在这个社会中生存。即便牧师也是普通人。
              • 让他们只捡舒服的教,不就成了。您可以出一本《圣经.舒服版》
    • 完全不介意~~~
      • +1
      • 那教可兰经的片段呢? -mikesmith(老猫); 9.4 19:48 (#7758632@0) reply more -mikesmith(老猫); 9.5 08:26 (#7759175@0) reply more
        • 可兰经是什么, 我不了解. 但我知道圣经很值得一读~~~
          • 正因为我们不信穆斯林这个宗教的家长一般不了解,是否才应该在学校教授一下呢?
            • 哪必须看适不适合~~~有些宗教是很可怕的, 对孩子无益
              • 个人看法,现在存在的几大宗教,包括基督教,天主教,印度教,伊斯兰教,佛教,都是试图去解释我们从哪里来,往哪里去的,从行为上,现代的主流宗教都是教人行善的,所以都没什么可怕,也谈不上谁好谁不好。但每个宗教也有极端势力,要当心是原教旨主义
                • 老猫不愧是读过摩门和见证人的,知道底细。
                • 这个你可能说的对, 我只接触过基督教而且还处于了解过程,对其他宗教不了解. 总的觉得基督教所倡导的理念我比较认同, 孩子也能接受~~~
    • 转个George Carlin的经典段子
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

      But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

      But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

      Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

      No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

      So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

      And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

      Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

      I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

      But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

      Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

      And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

      So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

      For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

      So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

      And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

      In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 作为一般性的几个课时的介绍我不反对,但花太多时间在这上不可取,作为信仰灌输就更不可接受。实际上圣经里讲的大部分是世界观和做人做事的道理,这一部分与当今社会的理念并不矛盾,不信教的人对其中的大部分也是可以接受的。其它宗教的经典就很不同,与现代社会
      的理念差距太大。
      • 宇宙人类起源这类的问题圣经的解释基本上与地心说在一个水平,还是以相关的最新科学研究成果为参考更合适。天堂地狱,清规戒律纯属无缉之谈,教给小孩子这些无异于恐吓。小孩为了上天堂而做好事,为了不下地狱而不做坏事是可悲的,自私的。总有一天他发现
        这一切都不是真实的,他会怎么想,怎么做,很值得思考。
        • 做好事上不了天堂。比如雷锋,他是为了写日记,就上不了天堂。
          • 雷锋在哪?何以断定他写日记是目的而非手段?万一搞错了怎么办,能不能平反?在天堂呆腻了怎么办,去地域要不要VISA什么的?。。。
    • 站在宗教外面教宗教,历史的文化的怎么教都行,教多少都行,站在宗教里面教宗教,教再少都不行,怎么教都是反科学不文明的。
      • +1.